User talk:Fay Freak

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Again, welcome! PseudoSkull (talk) 05:04, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

It's good to see you back. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 03:03, 7 July 2018 (UTC)
Welcome back, Pal. Per utramque cavernam 17:38, 12 July 2018 (UTC)
Welcome back! —AryamanA (मुझसे बात करेंयोगदान) 21:30, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
Indeed, welcome back! (Sorry about my accidental rollback; I’ve reverted myself.) — Vorziblix (talk · contribs) 11:19, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Yes, welcome. --Vahag (talk) 16:38, 17 July 2018 (UTC)


Any sources that discuss the etymology? It's obviously related to the Greek and Hebrew forms, but I can't tell which way the borrowings went. —Μετάknowledgediscuss/deeds 16:07, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

@Metaknowledge Better ask @Profes.I., he apparently has better sources and perhaps he can say more about ταώς (taṓs). I don’t know what sources I miss, but I think he is from the Chicago Oriental Institute. Hey Profes.I., don’t forget to watch Category:Requests for expansion of etymologies in Arabic entries so we can write etymology stubs. Fay Freak (talk) 17:22, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
Its a rather convoluted debate so I will just outline some facts to consider:
  • The earliest concrete references in Greek to the bird are found post-Persian conflict; Aristotle calls it a 'Persian Bird', Aristophanes uses them also despairingly as symbols of gaudy-dressed ambassadors, a jab perhaps also at the colorful foreign Persians.
  • τᾰών (taṓn), another word being glossed as 'peacock' was used prior, appearing even in Homer and Hesiod mean something like fair-dressed, beautifully adorned, birds in a general way for their colorful feathers, not inherently referring to a peacock. This gives it a potential to possibly not be a foreign loan, but rather derived from a precursor word that was then reapplied to a peacock in later times. ([1])
  • The Akkadian attestation of peacock is 𒀭𒄩𒉌𒄷 (Ha-ia), suggested to be named after the sound it makes, connected and written as the god linked to guarding the storehouses, keeping food supplies, perhaps the 'eyes' of its plumage linking it to a 'watcher' like in the Greek mythology. There is however a loanword from Sumerian 𒀉𒍗𒍑𒄷 (ti-uš, tius, tiuz, a bird) {[2]}, the general conception seems to be sudden in appearance, initially unseen, to swoop or come out of seemingly nowhere, to come upon quickly, to rush or dart, hence the speculated identity of an eagle or vulture. Perhaps instead a reference to the peacocks sudden opening of its plumage, being dazzling or darting up.
  • There is a Semitic root likely derived from the Sumerian loan found in the Hebrew and Aramaic verb טוּשׂ (ṭus, ṭūs, to fly, to rush, to dart, to swoop) {[3][4]} and in the Arabic ط س س (ṭ-s-s) meaning to strike suddenly, to smite, to be struck blind, to be blinded or to lose ones ability to think; hence the connection again to being dazzled; likewise Lane and others like J.G. Hava mention ط ش ش (ṭ-š-š) having the meaning of weakness in sight, to be faint.
Needless to say its very interesting and without definitive direction; the Greek could have borrowed the term from Akkadian through the Persian cultural bridging or perhaps from earlier borrowed constellation traditions; there however is a missing Persian term that would ease the mystery.
Additionally, it should be stated the whole connection தோகை (tōkai, plumage, peacock) is actually for another Hebrew term תוכי (túki, parrot, peacock) which developed semantically later from commentaries on verse 1 Kings 10:22 ([5]}; the reconstructed meaning found in many modern translation is that of baboon or monkey. --Profes.I. (talk)


You inserted {{taxlink}} in this entry, for which I thank you.

However, you did not insert the rank of the taxonomic name, "species" in this case. If you are going to verify the entry, please insert the rank.

Within {{taxlink}} you inserted "ver=180716". In this case I'd rather you hadn't. I check each new taxonomic name to see that whether is spelled correctly, whether there is a taxonomic name that supersedes it, and whether the rank of the name is correct. I don't expect others to do all that, as it can be time-consuming and has some idiosyncracies. OTOH, if you find that there is a Wikispecies entry for the taxon or that the Wikipedia article uses the taxonomic name, feel free to insert "ver=YYMMDD".

The most important thing from my perspective is that {{taxlink}} be used, because I track new entries that use it. DCDuring (talk) 17:47, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

@DCDuring Oh! I actually deliberated about if I should use it because if one uses the two-word form Genus species it is usually understood as species, so I thought that I have to write |2=species only when I use a species name alone. Fay Freak (talk) 17:57, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
For a general-purpose dictionary we can't assume that the user knows much more than a bare-minimum English vocabulary, certainly not much about taxonomy, however obvious it is after just a few encounters with taxa. The second parameter does not display; it categorizes and, sometimes in the case of one-part names, it disambiguates. Anyway, I'm happy that you use {{taxlink}}. There are certainly many taxonomic names that are worth entering into Wiktionary, especially the ones for macroflora and macrofauna, disease agents, newly discovered species, items of bizarre appearance, or unusual names, etc. DCDuring (talk) 21:03, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

What does |i= in diff mean? I don’t find a documentation. @DCDuring Fay Freak (talk) 21:00, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it should be in the documentation. It puts the displayed parameter in italics. That is relevant for genus and species names and various other subgeneric taxa and for all virus taxa. The display is not as precise as the display used in {{taxlink}}, but is good for almost all cases and not too bad for the others. DCDuring (talk) 23:13, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
I have no idea how to get it into all the places it would have to be, especially since I don't know the scope of the modules that implement the italicization. I don't know how to find the relevant author of whatever the module might be. See User Talk:Rua. DCDuring (talk) 23:27, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
{{projectlink}} probably should contain more documentation. I see only convoluted links, too. Fay Freak (talk) 23:31, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
It does not seem to be much promising to ask Rua for documentation, or? I think you have noticed she is avoiding this site for months now, or no? Well umm, she apparently left because she did things that she could not made be understood. Really sad. Fay Freak (talk) 23:49, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
I've never had much luck. Some others did.
For the matter at hand, I'll jury-rig some documentation. In any event, you know what it means. DCDuring (talk) 00:11, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Arabic word for ‘epilepsy’[edit]

Is there a form صرعة (ṣarʿa) beside صَرْع (ṣarʿ) meaning ‘epilepsy’? I need to account for Turkish sara and Armenian սարա (sara, epilepsy). --Vahag (talk) 11:04, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Vahag: صَرْعَة (ṣarʿa) is, apparently, an instance of epilepsy, the (single) time of epilepsy. The ending ـة (tāʾ marbūṭa) has, among other things, a singulative meaning. The term also means craze, fashion, vogue. [6] and [7]--Anatoli T. (обсудить/вклад) 11:46, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, Anatoli and Fay Freak. --Vahag (talk) 13:28, 23 July 2018 (UTC)


Hi. Can you create Aramaic pālaḥ? It is a noun means "servant", if I'm not mistaken.--Calak (talk) 18:49, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

@Calak Already there: פלחא /‎ ܦܠܚܐ. Here on Wiktionary it can be observed that the Aramaic nouns are in the emphatic state (= Arabic determinate state) and thus bear an aleph. Fay Freak (talk) 19:00, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, I add Kurdish descendants.--Calak (talk) 19:27, 10 August 2018 (UTC)